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Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hamilton Samuels]

Yes.   Here's my updated post...with a second edit...

Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.

Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply.   Agree.  The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things,  so it's hard to get context.   As Larry pointed out,  you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get.  I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response.   And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. "  What were the girl-in-pink's chances,  if he'd fired in the air,  or at Makhia's feet,  or rushed in with a baton?   It was happening so fast,  and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that.   

A judge ordered an edited tape be released. Or so I heard.

The calls for command voice are coming from those who have no experience dealing with emotionally disturbed raging humans.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Yes.   Here's my updated post...with a second edit...

Did the footage you found show a longer timeframe? I caught the affiliate link and it was too tightly packed to give context. 15-20 seconds of lead up would clarify things a lot.

Sorry, Fac, I'm so slow to reply.   Agree.  The footage that the PD released is what I saw and it seems to drop you into the middle of things,  so it's hard to get context.   As Larry pointed out,  you don't hear the cop using "command voice" during the segment we get.  I'm not sure there was much time for any coherent verbal response.   And it is impossible to call any outcome "the right thing. "  What were the girl-in-pink's chances,  if he'd fired in the air,  or at Makhia's feet,  or rushed in with a baton?   It was happening so fast,  and I can honestly say I have little concept of how you'd train someone to handle nanosecond judgement calls like that.   

There was a press conference where much of this was answered

Included was the question of why cops generally (and in this case in particular) do not shoot at legs.

I'm sure there are reasons.   Harder to hit a leg,  harder to stop an assailant?  Shots fired in the air lack deterrent effect?  I've  heard this before.   And there may be stats to back it up.   I think it's a good trend if body cams stay on,  and police are as transparent as possible when tragedies happen.   But it still needs to be asked if this tragedy had to happen.

No, it didn't have to happen. The teens have great culpability for creating a violent circumstance that required intervention.

If they aren't trying to kill each other no cop enters into it.

Begin at the beginning, with kids who have developed no conflict resolution skills, for whatever reason.

[Hamilton Samuels]

I think we should stop calling them tragedies.

You are such a schmuck...

Because he doesn't agree?

Intolerance.

[Hamilton Samuels]

I think we should stop calling them tragedies.

You are such a schmuck...

If he’s ready to call it planned genocide being executed before our eyes, maybe we can get something meaningful done.

Planned genocide.

Quite the leap, there, Stalinist.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Maybe some of you needed reminding that there is no "planned genocide" being conducted by cops.

https://www.nj.com/camden/2021/04/mom-sold-her-car-after-4-year-old-was-shot-in-it-now-nj-community-is-buying-her-a-new-one.html

There's not enough discussion or action to change the culture of violence in some of our communities.

You can Venmo@[email protected].

[kidcarter8]

Yes.   Here's my updated post...with a second edit...

Larry dodges real conversation. Anything that conflicts with his world view is verboten. Achtung, motherfucker.

You seem to bring a particular worldview to the knife-wielder case in question.   I didn't get anything in your many posts that suggested you wondered for even a minute if the shooter had alternatives.  Maybe Makhia was about to kill someone,  but I wouldn't mind some factfinding and context before I assume this was a legit use of force.  (full disclosure -- have not seen video,  will do so asap)

ETA -- the video released has had the shooting itself edited out,  because the local affiliate judged it too graphic to show on tv.   You hear shots,  but it's blacked out.

ETA (later)  --.found an unedited slomo version of the bodycam footage.   Yes,  sadly,  it looks like she was attacking with a knife and was mid-swing in the process of plunging it into the pink-clad girl who was shoved up against a car.   It does appear the knife would have gone in, without an immediate use of force.   It's horrific to watch.   And speaks to a fairly high level of rage... it's incredible,  there's a cop right there,  and she keeps right on, shifting her attack from one girl to the other.

From a different angle....

https://twitter.com/detranmusic/status/1384943308556980228?s=12

Deal with the issue at hand, Larry, instead of trying to deflect and change the subject, which is another favorite tool you employ.

The Columbus cop. Based on the video, which is what most of these public cases are becoming based upon, did that cop do the right thing?

There is a dead girl.

Could be my grandkid.

No. I’m not gonna sign off on saying the cop did the “right” thing.

Why because I’ve seen too much death and violence and one thing I can tell you for sure is life does not happen in super slow motion.

From my own experience the officer didn’t use his command voice “STOP! DROP THAT KNIFE!

Terrible out come of a terrible situation but no, no one gets to call killing a kid “doing the right thing.”

You keep ignoring the life that was saved by the immediate action.

You also don't quite get that the knife wielder was in a full on rage to kill.

The sadness here is in how this story was initially reported.

[kidcarter8]

Meanwhile, LeBron James.....

Good Lord!

[josh]

But what about Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Marianas?

Want to add 10 more Senators in Congress, and at least 10 more in the House?
...
...
Granting Senators to DC is too much, IMO.

Puerto Rico should be given statehood. This is pretty clear, especially since both major party's platforms have called for it (though the GOP currently only calls for a referendum at this point).

USVI, Guam, and the Marianas have not indicated a desire for statehood. American Samoa's residents are not equivalent - they are not American citizens and their government has indicated that they have no desire to change status.

But even if they were all admitted to the Union, it would not mean more members of the House, necessarily, let alone 10 of them. It would result in reapportionment of the 435 we already have.

DC is larger in population than Wyoming and Vermont. It would likely get one Representative, but not disrupt the whole very much.

Puerto Rico's population is larger than 20 states! They'd likely end up with 4 Representatives and 6 EVs.

That you don't want to give DC voters the right to form a state is hardly shocking.

How do you feel about the US VI?! Or Puerto Rico?

They can join a state. As I said.

No need to give outsized power to it, as creating a state would.

"They can join a state"  would dilute their power if they merged with a current state - as noted, Puerto Rico is larger than 20 current states. If they joined Florida, which is by far the closest to them, while they might get 4 US reps, I imagine they would find their needs shunted aside.

You don't have a reason that PR should not be a state, Ham, other than that it would be a big deal.

What states do you think the USVI or Guam should join?

And why?

[barton]

I believe a great many police departments, if not most, prohibit their officers from firing warning shots and train them not to do so.

Bullets go up
And ultimately........

Yep....

A few years ago,  some ME country actually had to outlaw the celebratory firing of guns in the air.   The practice was so prevalent that people were regularly suffering injuries from returning bullets.   

[Hairy Lime]

But what about Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Marianas?

Want to add 10 more Senators in Congress, and at least 10 more in the House?
...
...
Granting Senators to DC is too much, IMO.

Puerto Rico should be given statehood. This is pretty clear, especially since both major party's platforms have called for it (though the GOP currently only calls for a referendum at this point).

USVI, Guam, and the Marianas have not indicated a desire for statehood. American Samoa's residents are not equivalent - they are not American citizens and their government has indicated that they have no desire to change status.

But even if they were all admitted to the Union, it would not mean more members of the House, necessarily, let alone 10 of them. It would result in reapportionment of the 435 we already have.

DC is larger in population than Wyoming and Vermont. It would likely get one Representative, but not disrupt the whole very much.

Puerto Rico's population is larger than 20 states! They'd likely end up with 4 Representatives and 6 EVs.

That you don't want to give DC voters the right to form a state is hardly shocking.

How do you feel about the US VI?! Or Puerto Rico?

They can join a state. As I said.

No need to give outsized power to it, as creating a state would.

Outsized compared to, say, Wyoming or Vermont? As long as we have an electoral college, Senate and a House based on 700000 some states will have outsized power.

[barton]

Guam should become part of South Dakota, so there's one part of the state where you don't freeze your ass off. 

[barton]

Sens. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Raphael Warnock (D-Ga.), the only two Black Democrats in the Senate, were among several high-ranking officials pointing to Bryant’s death as an example of the need to overhaul policing....     

Though I'm a Booker fan,  I have to ask here:  if police shouldn't use the lethal force of a gun to stop a knife attack (when the attacker is literally right on top of someone),  why are police carrying guns?   Even if Ms Bryant was acting out of some impulse to defend a family member, there's no getting around the fact that she grabbed a lethal weapon that can transect an artery in a split second and went after someone.   If we want protection of citizens from this kind of assault, then what's the alternative that works in this situation?  Rubber bullets, sonic weapons,  some hypothetical high-speed deescalation method?   What works when a single cop arrives in the middle of an adrenalized street fight?  Help me understand,  Mr Booker, why you think this Bryant case is an "example. " 

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/politics/us-capitol-police-officer-investigation-radio-broadcast-lofgren/index.html

Capitol Police were told on the morning of Jan 6th to focus on anti-Trump protesters.

I want to know who told them that and why.

I want to know if it came from a higher up and what prompted that order from the higher up - and how much higher up does it go?!

[FlyingVProd]

When I worked at China Lake Navy Weapon Center they were working on the Star Wars program, and they were trying to develop lasers. The research led to the development of laser eye surgery.

In the future people will have lasers, or phasers like Star Trek and you will be able to set them on a less than lethal setting.

China Lake is probably trying to invent the new phasers and lasers right now. 

Salute,

Tony V.

[LarryBnDC]

Sens. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Raphael Warnock (D-Ga.), the only two Black Democrats in the Senate, were among several high-ranking officials pointing to Bryant’s death as an example of the need to overhaul policing....     

Though I'm a Booker fan,  I have to ask here:  if police shouldn't use the lethal force of a gun to stop a knife attack (when the attacker is literally right on top of someone),  why are police carrying guns?   Even if Ms Bryant was acting out of some impulse to defend a family member, there's no getting around the fact that she grabbed a lethal weapon that can transect an artery in a split second and went after someone.   If we want protection of citizens from this kind of assault, then what's the alternative that works in this situation?  Rubber bullets, sonic weapons,  some hypothetical high-speed deescalation method?   What works when a single cop arrives in the middle of an adrenalized street fight?  Help me understand,  Mr Booker, why you think this Bryant case is an "example. "

Three cops