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Very

6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[Hamilton Samuels]

[Hamilton Samuels]

Stamina? This shit doesn’t take stamina, even for someone who usually manages to do it well.

It’s like compulsive OKD.

You need different mocassins, Kemosabe.

[facilitatorn]

So nice, it was worth looking at twice.

[facilitatorn]

Stamina? This shit doesn’t take stamina, even for someone who usually manages to do it well.

It’s like compulsive OKD.

You need different mocassins, Kemosabe.

I just adopted a Plott Hound -Staffordshire Terrier mix pup. Mocassins remain on the endangered species list in my household till we’re a little further along the training tree. It’s only been 9 days.

[josh]

It’s been suggested to you, Ham, on more than one occasion. We’ve all seen how that worked.

You will be hard pressed to find one here with more stamina than me, fac. Banks comes close, but...

If only stamina were what is most needed.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.dcreport.org/2021/06/21/its-time-for-the-senate-to-vote-on-voting-rights/

Keep marching, as we do.

[josh]

My problem with VAT is it's a consumption tax and is regressive.

Poorer households would have to pay more of their income

That's a problem, for sure. But, if we want "all these things", then we all should being paying. Like they do in Canada, eh?

Nope. With great wealth should come great responsibility.

If a poor household is constantly scuffling just to get by, they don’t have the breathing space to try and move up and ahead. That renders the “American Dream” almost unattainable unless one starts off in a good position.

Do you ever get tired of asking for handouts? The hand-ups weren't enough?

Seriously, the handouts don't work, just as reparations won't. See: "Great Society, LBJ".

The Great Society programs had a lot of problems.

Neither handouts nor reparations were among them.

It began by enacting long-stalled legislation such as Medicare and federal aid to education and then moved into other areas, including high-speed mass transit, rental supplements, truth in packaging, environmental safety legislation, new provisions for mental health facilities, the Teacher Corps, manpower training, the Head Start program, aid to urban mass transit, a demonstration cities program, a housing act that included rental subsidies, and an act for higher education.

The Model Cities Program (Demonstration Cities and Metropolitan Development Act of 1966) had some of the biggest wins and biggest losses of the Great Society Programs, after Medicare and Head Start. Its eyes were very much bigger than its stomach, especially with its approach to so-called urban renewal. But its conscious intention to train future leaders in its cities was more successful than anybody could have asked for.

Head Start... was funded by a congress that had no idea how education worked and which kept trying to evaluate this hoped-for life changing experience by dollars and cents each year, starting with the year after they funded it.

"Did it work?!" aske Congress.
"We just got the money!" replied the folks setting up programs.

A year later, "Did it work?" came Congress' inquiry.
"We're trying to change lives and you want to know if the 4 year olds' lives have been meaningfully changed, now. We can't tell you."

Yes, as it turns out, Head Start was one of the first big examples of a failure to build evaluation properly into what was being done educationally, and it took years to begin to get a sense of its effectiveness - arguably close to two decades.

But it changed lives for the better.

And Medicare? That was and is a win, despite its issues.

[LarryBnDC]

My problem with VAT is it's a consumption tax and is regressive.

Poorer households would have to pay more of their income

That's a problem, for sure. But, if we want "all these things", then we all should being paying. Like they do in Canada, eh?

Nope. With great wealth should come great responsibility.

If a poor household is constantly scuffling just to get by, they don’t have the breathing space to try and move up and ahead. That renders the “American Dream” almost unattainable unless one starts off in a good position.

Do you ever get tired of asking for handouts? The hand-ups weren't enough?

Seriously, the handouts don't work, just as reparations won't. See: "Great Society, LBJ".

I guess you didn’t take the time to “unpack” the post about generations of black wealth being destroyed.

Your revisionist histories have been debunked time and again.

[LarryBnDC]

My problem with VAT is it's a consumption tax and is regressive.

Poorer households would have to pay more of their income

That's a problem, for sure. But, if we want "all these things", then we all should being paying. Like they do in Canada, eh?

Nope. With great wealth should come great responsibility.

If a poor household is constantly scuffling just to get by, they don’t have the breathing space to try and move up and ahead. That renders the “American Dream” almost unattainable unless one starts off in a good position.

Do you ever get tired of asking for handouts? The hand-ups weren't enough?

Seriously, the handouts don't work, just as reparations won't. See: "Great Society, LBJ".

The Great Society programs had a lot of problems.

Neither handouts nor reparations were among them.

It began by enacting long-stalled legislation such as Medicare and federal aid to education and then moved into other areas, including high-speed mass transit, rental supplements, truth in packaging, environmental safety legislation, new provisions for mental health facilities, the Teacher Corps, manpower training, the Head Start program, aid to urban mass transit, a demonstration cities program, a housing act that included rental subsidies, and an act for higher education.

The Model Cities Program (Demonstration Cities and Metropolitan Development Act of 1966) had some of the biggest wins and biggest losses of the Great Society Programs, after Medicare and Head Start. Its eyes were very much bigger than its stomach, especially with its approach to so-called urban renewal. But its conscious intention to train future leaders in its cities was more successful than anybody could have asked for.

Head Start... was funded by a congress that had no idea how education worked and which kept trying to evaluate this hoped-for life changing experience by dollars and cents each year, starting with the year after they funded it.

"Did it work?!" aske Congress.
"We just got the money!" replied the folks setting up programs.

A year later, "Did it work?" came Congress' inquiry.
"We're trying to change lives and you want to know if the 4 year olds' lives have been meaningfully changed, now. We can't tell you."

Yes, as it turns out, Head Start was one of the first big examples of a failure to build evaluation properly into what was being done educationally, and it took years to begin to get a sense of its effectiveness - arguably close to two decades.

But it changed lives for the better.

And Medicare? That was and is a win, despite its issues.

Quite

[Hamilton Samuels]

My problem with VAT is it's a consumption tax and is regressive.

Poorer households would have to pay more of their income

That's a problem, for sure. But, if we want "all these things", then we all should being paying. Like they do in Canada, eh?

Nope. With great wealth should come great responsibility.

If a poor household is constantly scuffling just to get by, they don’t have the breathing space to try and move up and ahead. That renders the “American Dream” almost unattainable unless one starts off in a good position.

Do you ever get tired of asking for handouts? The hand-ups weren't enough?

Seriously, the handouts don't work, just as reparations won't. See: "Great Society, LBJ".

I guess you didn’t take the time to “unpack” the post about generations of black wealth being destroyed.

Your revisionist histories have been debunked time and again.

No, I get the entire redistribute wealth program to make up for decisions made by people who are dead now view.

I'm still waiting for my checks from the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, and the British Crown, the German Kaiser, and Napoleon. As soon as they hit the mailbox and clear at the bank, I'll be sure to join your cause.

[LarryBnDC]

My problem with VAT is it's a consumption tax and is regressive.

Poorer households would have to pay more of their income

That's a problem, for sure. But, if we want "all these things", then we all should being paying. Like they do in Canada, eh?

Nope. With great wealth should come great responsibility.

If a poor household is constantly scuffling just to get by, they don’t have the breathing space to try and move up and ahead. That renders the “American Dream” almost unattainable unless one starts off in a good position.

Do you ever get tired of asking for handouts? The hand-ups weren't enough?

Seriously, the handouts don't work, just as reparations won't. See: "Great Society, LBJ".

I guess you didn’t take the time to “unpack” the post about generations of black wealth being destroyed.

Your revisionist histories have been debunked time and again.

No, I get the entire redistribute wealth program to make up for decisions made by people who are dead now view.

I'm still waiting for my checks from the Roman Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, and the British Crown, the German Kaiser, and Napoleon. As soon as they hit the mailbox and clear at the bank, I'll be sure to join your cause.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

<rimshot!>

[LarryBnDC]

It only took seven more years...


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/21/sports/football/carl-nassib-gay-nfl.html

[facilitatorn]

http://www.salon.com/2021/06/21/the-mythologizing-of-jan-6-from-fox-news-whining-to-ashli-babbitts-martyrdom/

If there were some way to combine defenestration with the blood eagle, that would be the right promotion for Tucker Carlson. With all he’s doing for the country, and for media, and for the news he surely deserves it as much as anyone alive. He’d be going to the super-suite to meet Roger and Herman Cain.

[Oilcanary]

From the Daily Kos link that Fac posted....an actual ON TOPIC post!

This means raising taxes on the rich. The majority of Democrats in Congress agree on that. They're trying to reestablish the idea that everyone paying their fair share of taxes is just how government is supposed to work, and they see this huge, absolutely essential, and highly popular  infrastructure proposal as the way to do it.

"What we're doing is generating revenue, but we are also making a major area of American government more fair, so people don’t feel they've been played while the rich person gets off scot-free," Sen. Ron. Wyden, the Oregon Democrat chairing the tax-writing Finance Committee, told The New York Times. He's been working on tax policy changes for corporations, the energy industry, and the rich. That means raising corporate taxes from the 2017 GOP tax scam rate of 21%—it was 35% pre-2017, and Democrats have proposed rates of 25% and 28%. They should go back to 35%, but we'll see how much they want to fix this.

Wyden's team is eyeing a couple of other 2017 measures, including one that’s letting millionaires using partnerships and limited liability companies take a tax break meant for small businesses, and the carried-interest loophole that allows private equity firms to claim the fees they get from clients as capital gains (taxed at 20%) instead of income (taxed at 37%). Wyden is also proposing getting rid of a range of tax breaks—44 separate provisions—that give the fossil fuel industry a windfall and replacing them with tax breaks for green energy producers.

For the super-rich, Biden wants to raise the top tax bracket from 37% to 39.6% and to tax stock sales for millionaires as income rather than capital gains. There's support for that among rank-and-file Democrats in Congress. "Taxes need to be raised on corporations and need to be raised on that wealthiest of people who got a terrible, tremendous windfall from the Trump tax game," Rep. Steve Cohen a Democrat of Tennessee, told the Times.

Voters like the idea, too. As Kerry Eleveld writes, "For nearly two decades, more than two-thirds of American taxpayers have told Gallup they don't think corporations pay their fair share in taxes … In fact, just a couple months ago, Pew Research Center polling found that at least 80% of Americans said one of their biggest complaints about the federal tax system was the fact that some corporations and wealthy individuals don't pay their fair share."

80 percent.  Time for our elected reps to start listening to their constituents.  This just makes sense.  And how many of those rich people got rich on the backs of people working really hard for meager wages?  If anything, Democrat's proposals are too tame.  It is time to stop apologizing for long overdue wealth distribution.  Who really earns our nation's wealth - some dude in an office masturbating with numbers on a screen, or someone busting their hump in a sawmill where it's 110 inside and the air is full of sawdust?

Here is some food for your thought on this complex matter: 1. Wealth inequality has increased but is not exploding.

The share of domestic wealth held by the wealthiest 0.1% of Americans rose from 7% to 14% over the past four decades, 1978–2016.[4] That increase is significant, but it is only half as large as the estimates that proponents of a wealth tax frequently cite.
The richest Americans tend to be self-made entrepreneurs: 67% of the Forbes 400 richest Americans are self-made, and eight of the top 10 all got to where they are by creating successful businesses.

There is no evidence that reducing wealth inequality will increase economic growth. It may even harm growth because it discourages saving and investment.

2. Of all the possible types of ways to collect revenue, wealth taxes are the least desirable.

Wealth taxes are inefficient and ineffective because wealth is inherently more difficult to measure. Privately held companies, for example, are not traded in public markets, which means that there are no stock prices by which one can objectively gauge their value. Also, financial assets can be hidden or moved abroad with the click of a mouse or converted into other assets that are hard to value.

A dozen European countries had a wealth tax in 1990, but most abandoned them because they were ineffective and expensive to administer. In part, the taxes failed to raise much revenue because wealthy individuals easily moved their assets across borders to avoid taxation. Today, only Switzerland, Norway, Belgium, and Spain still have wealth taxes, but the rates—0.3%–1%, 0.85%, 0.15%, and 0.2%–2.5%, respectively—are much lower than the 2%–6% proposed by advocates such as Senator Elizabeth Warren for the United States. With a small enough rate, there is much less incentive to evade the tax, but far less revenue is raised. Switzerland collects the most from its wealth tax; and it only brings in about 3% of its tax revenue.[5]

Wealth taxes distort behavior in a way that is harmful to economic growth and national prosperity. By taking a fraction of people’s wealth each year, the tax reduces the return to investing and discourages saving. This can reduce growth because investing and capital accumulation are critical to innovation.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/whats-wrong-with-a-wealth-tax

I know that only addresses part of what you posted, but it is interesting.

I guess the billionaires (Koch Foundation, eat all) who fund the Manhattan Institute would be against a wealth tax.

Unfortunately the information about wealth taxes failing in Europe is outdated as of earlier this month:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/05/g-7-nations-reach-historic-deal-on-global-tax-reform.html

Looks like you didn't read the piece, Larry.  The wealth tax they were discussing was on individuals. What you linked to regards corporate tax.

The Koch Manhattan Institute paper was on wealth tax,  which is not what the Daily Kos article I quoted was about or what the administration is proposing.   Read carefully.  And then any read any number of Nobel winning economists on how reducing wealth inequity stimulates the economy.   

Places like Manh. Inst. have wealthy sponsors who want labor as cheap as possible (maximum wealth inequity) and their taxes as low as possible.   But it's a thriving middle and working class that drives a healthy economy, spends money,  and boosts savings and investment.

[facilitatorn]

It only took seven more years...


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/21/sports/football/carl-nassib-gay-nfl.html

And he was a pro for most of that time. Let’s see how it actually goes for him. I don’t have great confidence in the hearts or minds of the NFL loving world. Raiders fans are probably his best bet. Especially over Cowboys, Chiefs, or Eagles fans, groups made predominantly of failures in our education systems.