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6 (50%)

Some

4 (33.3%)

Not sure

0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[josh]

I don't find AOC's track record on getting bills passed especially impressive at this point. According to Congress (dot) gov, her hands were in 40% of the bills passed since January, but there is an awful lot of Post Office naming and the like.

OTOH, given how few bills get through Congress at all these days (2% of the last Congress' bills became law!), even getting that done is not bad.

She is an effective spokesperson for causes that were failing without her involvement. And as she learns the ropes better, she will become increasingly effective.

There are many sophomore Reps who have done less.

[LarryBnDC]

Banks thinks he is being pragmatic by rooting for the bad guys.

Larry I am pragmatic, but I won't sell my soul.

But there is a reason for the old saying, "politics makes strange bedfellows".

And Larry I've listened to your perspective, and I understand it, and in many cases I agree with you and your goals.

However I found the environment hostile to its immediate fruition.

Biden is President because black and brown people put him through the primary and then took two seats in Georgia...

And all moderates do is tell the BASE of this fucking party to be quiet, white folks talking.

And then when shit goes south electorally the first thing you will say is well, the black turnout was low.

In this era you are either going to split or lose the white vote no matter what so why do you keep spitting on the folks who have been giving you 90 plus? instead of watching the GOP make it harder for them to vote why are you not protecting their rights and access?

Joe Biden promised to reach across the aisle and work in a bipartisan fashion and the Republicans tried to overturn the election and failing that tried to overthrow the government.


YMMV

The BASE stayed home in NJ and VA. Guess they thought those races didn't matter. Now, they'll be shitting themselves and blaming MoJoe Manchin or Miss Sinematic ain't gonna change the fact that the BASE took a vacation when they should have kept up the good work.

Those are indeed FACTS. Now, if you think the BASE is brown and black and white folks are either blue dog Dems or GOPers, as it seems you do, then the turnout being low among black and brown folks DOES matter, and it ain't bias or prejudicial to point that out.

You can't have it both ways, Larry. You can't say minorities won for the DEMS because they showed up at the polls, and then when they don't show say that it's not their fault.

There are other factors at work in all of these races/votes/elections, but if white folks are evil and non-whites are saviors, then the saviors can't be taking holidays.

Blah blah blah

You take our vote for granted while white folks split theirs and the other side is actively seeking to overturn this Madisonian democracy.

I don't take anything for granted, other than politicians will lie, taxes will have to be paid by someone, and we will all die.

I do know, however, that the American people are impatient, lazy, disinclined to support their opinions with facts, and obsessed with money.

In politics, as in most things in the USA, follow the money.

Always.

The Squad and Manchin and Sinema and Gottlieb and your friends in Georgia are getting their money from somewhere, or they'd be more responsible.

That false equivalence makes no sense whatsoever.

I see you have no counter.

Duped.

How do you rationally counter bullshit?

[bankshot1]

Larry

I'm left of center and support many of the same things you do. But I'm also a pragmatist. I would like to see them get done and not die because they lacked enough popular support to carry them through. I suggested a road map for Biden's first two years to help him in a critical '22 election. As posted, get some popular wins and monetize them for '22 votes.

Yelling GO BIG and scaring the 80% of voters who are not aligned with the Dems fringe far left threatens a lot of progress that you want. I could argue you are a closet Repub conservative sand-bagging Biden's agenda.

But I just think you're wrong.

Its kind of like DEFUND THE POLICE^¹⁰ pre 2020 election

It loses a lot of votes and House seats.

And I fear a resurgent Republican party can re-emerge and strangle our democracy.

Biden looked impotent trying to cut deals with Manchin and the Progs.

It was a terrible look for the guy supposedly leading the world's greatest power.

Biden should GO SMART and monetize it into votes ASAP.

But his window is narrowing.

And I'm sorry you felt insulted.

But I disagreed with you and told you why.

As I have countless times in meetings pushing an idea I like or arguing against one I think is lacking.

And race had nothing to do with it.

so stop playing the fucking race card.

Race has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do not play the race card when I say things said are racist.

For you to tell me I do not hear what I hear filtered through years of my life experience is fucking racist.

I keep telling you I was/am ecstatic with what Biden tried.

He went there with Covid relief with not one Republican vote.

He pushed huge vaccine efforts against severe opposition to the efforts to save lives.

You guys crushed me when I said the gop response to the virus was so terrible as to be deliberate once it became clear who was taking the brunt. How many dead in May 2020 when MAGA screamed Liberate Michigan?

 Now 750,000 dead and 150,000 dead since June were unvaxxed.
 
Remember the video of German airman walking off the zeppelin to shed weight?

No Democrat ran on Defund The Police but it was the CRT of 2020; a GOP weapon to motivate the suburban moderates who reliably respond to racist fear mongering.

In 2018 the border and caravans. 2020 the projection of BLM rioters, looters and arsonists leav8ng the inner cities without police to keep them there and away from HERE while this year their children are being taught to hate themselves because they learn American History.

That cohort is gonna split or go majority GOP as they have for 50 damn years.

Even white women vote GOP


I do not know where you get the 80% from. But evidently you are chasing the mythical white working class voter who have not been reliably democratic since LBJ passed civil rights.

Black women activists and voters beat Trump in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.

GOP is rolling out Law after law in state after state to make sure that will not happen again  and if it does they are putting levers in place to overturn results they do not like.

Meanwhile, in the Senate the GOP will not even allow debate on voting protection because Manchin and Sinema insist on holding on to the filibuster.

The voting bloc the Democrats rely on to win is bring ignored except by the Progressives you vilify.

You lump the Squad and Manchin and Sinema as giving Biden a hard time when it is Jayapal holding the line against Gottheimer who broke the tandem bill agreement (and went against Pelosi) and wanted to vote on the BIF immediately after it passed the Senate.

When Biden stood by the tandem track agreement you freaked out about how had gone back on his word with the party that for the most part swear he is not legitimate.

Larry I mean this with no malice, but I hope you are seeing a shrink.

I'm not going to follow you down your meandering rabbit hole of non-sequiters and rebut and comment on each one just to end up with three more ramblings responses that take me further down your maze of crazy. I'm sorry you are as troubled as you are.

And I'm sorry you see race in all your transactions with other people. I really am. But there is little I can do about it. I can only tell you honestly I treat you and respond to you exactly the same as I would anyone else here. Your race is irrelevant to me. Your words are not.

Just understand that if people disagree with you maybe they just disagree with you.

[FlyingVProd]

I had ancestors who were Cowboys and Indians here in the West and they lived good long lives.

And it was easy if you had chickens for eggs, and cows for milk, and if you grew a good garden. Plus you might be in an area where you can fish, and there is the ocean for seafood for the people on the coast. Plus wild blackberries, etc. And deer, etc.

A lot of the old Cowboys lived good long lives.

Salute,

Tony V.

[bankshot1]

AOC has mastered social media.

So has Kim Kardashian 

and Donald Trump

and few confuse them as great legislators or statesmen.

Twitter etal has leveled the playing field that enable the photogenic and nimble of thumb to have outsized influence on our lives.

However the democratization of messaging also comes with risk of it being dumbed down for the masses.

[FlyingVProd]

Here you go Bambu, in case you want to read about the Cowboys... These were my people.

https://www.history.com/topics/westward-expansion/cowboys


The Cowboys and Indians had good lives, at least some of them did.

My Grandpa was a Cowboy from Oregon and he lived to be almost 90. And he smoked cigarettes. He grew his own garden, and he raised his own pigs and his own cows, etc, and he raised chickens for eggs, etc. My Grandmother even made home made wine out of the wild blackberries, blackberry wine is fantastic. Country folks can survive.

Colorado, Nevada, California, Oregon, all good places where the Cowboys had good lives, and the Indians too. Many Cowboys married Indian women.

Salute,

Tony V.

[josh]

AOC has mastered social media.

So has Kim Kardashian 

and Donald Trump

and few confuse them as great legislators or statesmen.

Twitter etal has leveled the playing field that enable the photogenic and nimble of thumb to have outsized influence on our lives.

However the democratization of messaging also comes with risk of it being dumbed down for the masses.

Good try, Banks, but you have no examples of sophomore Congressfolks who are more effective than she at anything.

[LarryBnDC]

Larry

I'm left of center and support many of the same things you do. But I'm also a pragmatist. I would like to see them get done and not die because they lacked enough popular support to carry them through. I suggested a road map for Biden's first two years to help him in a critical '22 election. As posted, get some popular wins and monetize them for '22 votes.

Yelling GO BIG and scaring the 80% of voters who are not aligned with the Dems fringe far left threatens a lot of progress that you want. I could argue you are a closet Repub conservative sand-bagging Biden's agenda.

But I just think you're wrong.

Its kind of like DEFUND THE POLICE^¹⁰ pre 2020 election

It loses a lot of votes and House seats.

And I fear a resurgent Republican party can re-emerge and strangle our democracy.

Biden looked impotent trying to cut deals with Manchin and the Progs.

It was a terrible look for the guy supposedly leading the world's greatest power.

Biden should GO SMART and monetize it into votes ASAP.

But his window is narrowing.

And I'm sorry you felt insulted.

But I disagreed with you and told you why.

As I have countless times in meetings pushing an idea I like or arguing against one I think is lacking.

And race had nothing to do with it.

so stop playing the fucking race card.

Race has EVERYTHING to do with it.

I do not play the race card when I say things said are racist.

For you to tell me I do not hear what I hear filtered through years of my life experience is fucking racist.

I keep telling you I was/am ecstatic with what Biden tried.

He went there with Covid relief with not one Republican vote.

He pushed huge vaccine efforts against severe opposition to the efforts to save lives.

You guys crushed me when I said the gop response to the virus was so terrible as to be deliberate once it became clear who was taking the brunt. How many dead in May 2020 when MAGA screamed Liberate Michigan?

 Now 750,000 dead and 150,000 dead since June were unvaxxed.
 
Remember the video of German airman walking off the zeppelin to shed weight?

No Democrat ran on Defund The Police but it was the CRT of 2020; a GOP weapon to motivate the suburban moderates who reliably respond to racist fear mongering.

In 2018 the border and caravans. 2020 the projection of BLM rioters, looters and arsonists leav8ng the inner cities without police to keep them there and away from HERE while this year their children are being taught to hate themselves because they learn American History.

That cohort is gonna split or go majority GOP as they have for 50 damn years.

Even white women vote GOP


I do not know where you get the 80% from. But evidently you are chasing the mythical white working class voter who have not been reliably democratic since LBJ passed civil rights.

Black women activists and voters beat Trump in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia.

GOP is rolling out Law after law in state after state to make sure that will not happen again  and if it does they are putting levers in place to overturn results they do not like.

Meanwhile, in the Senate the GOP will not even allow debate on voting protection because Manchin and Sinema insist on holding on to the filibuster.

The voting bloc the Democrats rely on to win is bring ignored except by the Progressives you vilify.

You lump the Squad and Manchin and Sinema as giving Biden a hard time when it is Jayapal holding the line against Gottheimer who broke the tandem bill agreement (and went against Pelosi) and wanted to vote on the BIF immediately after it passed the Senate.

When Biden stood by the tandem track agreement you freaked out about how had gone back on his word with the party that for the most part swear he is not legitimate.

Larry I mean this with no malice, but I hope you are seeing a shrink.

I'm not going to follow you down your meandering rabbit hole of non-sequiters and rebut and comment on each one just to end up with three more ramblings responses that take me further down your maze of crazy. I'm sorry you are as troubled as you are.

And I'm sorry you see race in all your transactions with other people. I really am. But there is little I can do about it. I can only tell you honestly I treat you and respond to you exactly the same as I would anyone else here. Your race is irrelevant to me. Your words are not.

Just understand that if people disagree with you maybe they just disagree with you.

Just drop it.

I do not give a damn what you think about me you used up any modicum of respect years ago.

You spent a year calling me a liar because I fucked up editing a pull quote from an article.

You keep coming at me about Bidens agenda every time there is a hiccup at the sausage factory because I said this was the time to be truly transformational and GO BIG.

HE WENT BIG

What more is there to it?

While you may believe you are being left of center you ignore the fact the GOP has tacked so far to the right the center is no longer where it used to be.

 You do not drop all the personal invective at me because I called you on some racist shit and then tell me I need to see a shrink.

I am done.

We will see how it all shakes out.

BTW

Jon Gruden confirmed everything I said about the football player and Oprah.

[bankshot1]

AOC has mastered social media.

So has Kim Kardashian 

and Donald Trump

and few confuse them as great legislators or statesmen.

Twitter etal has leveled the playing field that enable the photogenic and nimble of thumb to have outsized influence on our lives.

However the democratization of messaging also comes with risk of it being dumbed down for the masses.

Good try, Banks, but you have no examples of sophomore Congressfolks who are more effective than she at anything.

Josh I'm sorry your head is so far up your ass your vision is impaired.

My point is the social media has allowed all sorts of people an ability to communicate their ideas and messages widely and quickly.

In Congress of old young legislators sat and listened to their party elders and did what they were told. Today they twitter and reach millions of people.

I'm sorry this concept is a challenging one for you to grasp.

I don't use most social media, but i understand on the other side of the aisle sophomore legislator MT Green is an active user of social media to reach her constituents. I suspect others do as well.

Hope that helps and you might want to wash the shit out of your eyes.

all the best as always

[bankshot1]

Larry
Joe went as big as he could.

He knew $7T was too big

and $6T was a no go

and $4.5T there was resistance

so he tried $3.5T but couldn't get enough support for that

and eventually he grovelled and got $1.8T

so yeah, Larry Joe went big or a big as he could get done.

which relative to your initial wet dreams and pipe dreams was pretty fucking small.

[LarryBnDC]

Joe Manchin is pitching a book

Suckers...

He has a profitable coal brokerage, drives a Maserati to his yacht but is afraid his dirt poor constituents will develop an entitlement mentality if they pass transformational legislation.

He says elect more liberals while blocking voter and electoral protection.

And I am the one does not understand how this works.

Manchin is a bought bad guy.

Sinema is a bought flake.

[LarryBnDC]

Larry
Joe went as big as he could.

He knew $7T was too big

and $6T was a no go

and $4.5T there was resistance

so he tried $3.5T but couldn't get enough support for that

and eventually he grovelled and got $1.8T

so yeah, Larry Joe went big or a big as he could get done.

which relative to your initial wet dreams and pipe dreams was pretty fucking small.

I never put a dollar sign on anything.

Joe went big.

That is all.

What happened after is moot in this conversation

so he tried $3.5T but couldn't get enough support for that

and eventually he grovelled and got $1.8T

Could not get support from who?

Manchin and Sinema.

Your perspective is baffling.

[josh]

AOC has mastered social media.

So has Kim Kardashian 

and Donald Trump

and few confuse them as great legislators or statesmen.

Twitter etal has leveled the playing field that enable the photogenic and nimble of thumb to have outsized influence on our lives.

However the democratization of messaging also comes with risk of it being dumbed down for the masses.

Good try, Banks, but you have no examples of sophomore Congressfolks who are more effective than she at anything.

Josh I'm sorry your head is so far up your ass your vision is impaired.

My point is the social media has allowed all sorts of people an ability to communicate their ideas and messages widely and quickly.

No, Banks, that was not your point.

It's your point now, but it wasn't your point in the post to which I responded,

You were attacking AOC's capability.

You want to pretend it was something else, don't let me stop you.

Give me an example of a more effective sophomore Representative or admit that AOC just might be more than social media.

That's all I'm asking.

I already granted that she is not currently great at getting legislation through. (21 bills on which she was a co-sponsor is not nothing when only 52 have passed at all, but it wasn't primarily her work.) But nobody is great at it these days. Only 2% of bills made it into law in the prior Congress.

I don't expect it, Banks, because you are almost as bad as Ham and Ward and Kid about admitting your mistakes. Almost.

[LarryBnDC]

Shifting goalposts is a bankshot specialty

[bankshot1]

AOC has mastered social media.

So has Kim Kardashian 

and Donald Trump

and few confuse them as great legislators or statesmen.

Twitter etal has leveled the playing field that enable the photogenic and nimble of thumb to have outsized influence on our lives.

However the democratization of messaging also comes with risk of it being dumbed down for the masses.

Good try, Banks, but you have no examples of sophomore Congressfolks who are more effective than she at anything.

Josh I'm sorry your head is so far up your ass your vision is impaired.

My point is the social media has allowed all sorts of people an ability to communicate their ideas and messages widely and quickly.

No, Banks, that was not your point.

It's your point now, but it wasn't your point in the post to which I responded,

You were attacking AOC's capability.

You want to pretend it was something else, don't let me stop you.

Give me an example of a more effective sophomore Representative or admit that AOC just might be more than social media.

That's all I'm asking.

I already granted that she is not currently great at getting legislation through. (21 bills on which she was a co-sponsor is not nothing when only 52 have passed at all, but it wasn't primarily her work.) But nobody is great at it these days. Only 2% of bills made it into law in the prior Congress.

I don't expect it, Banks, because you are almost as bad as Ham and Ward and Kid about admitting your mistakes. Almost.

LMAO

Josh as much as your thimble sized ego needs to be right, once more you are wrong.

My point was social media has changed messaging in this country and has expanded the capability of all sorts of people to be influencers. The democratization of messaging and its down side of dumbing down messaging.

I used AOC because you used her and cited her legislative accomplishments.

I then then compared her to other influencers who use social media

I was not addressing your issue, but one I thought more interesting.

Josh stick to posting cartoons.