Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[barton]

YOUR GOP, kid. Racist, selfish, and total assholes:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104837/MAGA-hat-wearing-women-force-entire-plane-deboard-refusing-wear-masks-flight.html

Happy New Year, pal.

I will say only about this case that you dont even know what happened.

Video.   Multiple witness corroboration.   If your politics means you can't disavow these women,  it may be time to look in the mirror and ask who you've become.   And one of  my New Year's resolutions now goes into effect:  not responding or reading your posts further.    May your audience here be ever-shrinking.   Like your...

[REDSTATEWARD]

(NOTE: The excess mortality figures around the country make a joke of Ward's repeated position that our deaths reported is inflated or Kid's similar, but slightly twisted views on the topic.)

Youhave it upside down.
The  death* numbers are what they are, the actual infections are undercounted by a factor of at least 10.
Government scientists es­timate that 40% of cases are asymp­tomatic and 80% of symp­tomatic cases are mild—in short, 88% of sub­jects don’t know they are in­fected or have no great in­cen­tive to find out if they are suf­fering from Covid or some more fa­mil­iar bug.
Your inability to process this reality destroys any credibility you claim on the issue.

* Although it is still not clear when COVID-19 is discovered in an  autopsy if it should count as a strict Covid death 

[REDSTATEWARD]

Hey, GA GOP folks - no point in voting. Trump says this is all illegal and invalid, so I am sure he will get the results tossed.


More drama?

Yay.....

As log as we get some things squared away for 2022 and beyond

TRUMP again doing the nation a great service in sticking to his guns.

What, specifically, needs to be squared away? Trump has been lying about the election and lying a out the evidence for months before he got his ass.whipped. Every single.lawsuit he brought has been tossed out of court, either because there is no evidence or 9n the formerly conservative principles that states run their own ection. The only thing to be squared away is hauling Trump's ass out of the bully pulpit.

For the first time in 144 years we have a loser who refuses to admit he lost and he is trying to overthrow the legitimate results of a free and fair election. He and his  anti democracy followers need to be identified, remembered and eliminated at the ballot box.

What is “ anti democratic” about challenging the results of an election?
It has been done many times and none have been successful at the Presidential level.
What is “ anti democratic “ is blaming a winning candidate for colluding with a foreign government to illegally interfere in an election with absolutely no proof.

You are an intellectually dishonest ass. And not worth arguing with. But riddle me this Buttman: under what circumstances would the Russia investigation have overturned any valid, fair and free election? No one was using that to put Clinton in office. Republicans are using evidence free baseless conspiracy theories to undermine a valid, fair and free election.

LOL!
We have to go no further back than four years to find democrats in Congress doing the same thing you accuse republicans of doing this year.  Is it only “ anti democratic “ when you don’t like it?

No.

History is not your forte.

[barton]

What's the difference between the GOP efforts this year and past efforts, with regard to protesting the votes?

Here's one Republican politician's answer:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/01/02/trump-republicans-electoral-college-riggleman-nr-bts-vpx.cnn

Passionate and eloquent speaking truth to his own party.   Thanks -- very cheering.   

Really,  to fix the present system we need to scrap fundraising and shock-ads entirely and just  have candidate debates on public television. 

[Hamilton Samuels]

YOUR GOP, kid. Racist, selfish, and total assholes:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104837/MAGA-hat-wearing-women-force-entire-plane-deboard-refusing-wear-masks-flight.html

Happy New Year, pal.

I will say only about this case that you dont even know what happened.

And that actions do of course have consequences.

Guess you didn't read the article or watch the video.


"Pal".

[barton]

We'll never have precise figures on all deaths from covid.   E.g.  an 80 year old has a bad cold which was actually mild covid,  recovers,  and then a couple months later is out pruning a tree and collapses and has cardiac arrest.   It may be impossible to say if the earlier bout of covid was a contributing factor or not.   Or if he had sinus tachycardia due to an overactive thyroid which hadn't been treated, or etc.   

That is why the statistical concept of Excess Deaths is useful with this kind of pandemic.   It's not an Ebola outbreak, where the deaths are unequivocal, easily distinguishable from other COD.   But ED gives a broad metric on the overall effect on public health of a pandemic,  by comparing an average death rate to a current time period.   

[josh]

Yes, the complaint about inflated numbers gets reiterated here and in the White House, both.

In a timely statement this morning, President Trump reiterated his claim that:

The number of cases and deaths of the China Virus is far exaggerated in the United States because of @CDCgov’s ridiculous method of determination compared to other countries, many of whom report, purposely, very inaccurately and low. “When in doubt, call it Covid.” Fake News!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1345720107255926784?s=20

Excess Deaths makes it clear how absurd the claim that that is what is going on truly is, whether Trump or Ward makes it. We undercount our deaths, even if some deaths are misassigned as COVID-19, because vastly more are misassigned to other causes when they are COVID's.

Trump got pushback from his Surgeon General, who said he had no reason to doubt the CDC numbers. Not as strong as I would have liked, but far stronger than his boss would have liked, I am sure.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/jerome-adams-trump-coronavirus-death-toll-cnntv/index.html

This kind of conduct from Trump is exactly the kind of minimizing of the impact of COVID-19 that has emboldened so many of his adherents to continue to behave recklessly and to spread the virus without regard for common sense. And "but it was legal in this case" is just not a defense against accusations of stupidity.

[REDSTATEWARD]

We'll never have precise figures on all deaths from covid.   E.g.  an 80 year old has a bad cold which was actually mild covid,  recovers,  and then a couple months later is out pruning a tree and collapses and has cardiac arrest.   It may be impossible to say if the earlier bout of covid was a contributing factor or not.   Or if he had sinus tachycardia due to an overactive thyroid which hadn't been treated, or etc.   

That is why the statistical concept of Excess Deaths is useful with this kind of pandemic.   It's not an Ebola outbreak, where the deaths are unequivocal, easily distinguishable from other COD.   But ED gives a broad metric on the overall effect on public health of a pandemic,  by comparing an average death rate to a current time period.

Totally misses the point.

[josh]

US Surgeon General Jerome Adams this morning defended the Trump administration's failure to deliver on its goal of vaccinating 20 million people by the end of 2020.

Adams told CNN's Jake Tapper that the federal government did deliver 20 million doses to the states as promised.

"I want people to understand that the projections we were putting out were based on what we could control at the federal level. And we did deliver on 20 million doses delivered, but you're always going to have more doses allocated versus delivered. Delivered versus shots in arms. I just want to be frank," he said.

He can be frank all he would like, but his claim on delivery of the 20 million doses disagrees with the Vaccine Czar's claim in the same topic.

But also, he repeats the third version of the claim, ignoring the first version of vaccinations given by the end of the year.

Surgeon General Adams on December 8th:

Adams is trying to set expectations. Once a vaccine is approved by the Food and Drug Administration, about 40 million doses will be sent by the end of the year, enough to vaccinate 20 million people with two shots. That’s a tenth of vaccines the White House initially promised by the end of the year.

“I feel really good that we are going to get 20 million people vaccinated in the next several weeks,” he said.

Not "20 million doses delivered. 40 million delivered, 20 million vaccinated.

https://www.baynews9.com/fl/tampa/news/2020/12/09/us-surgeon-general-expects-public-to-be-vaccinated-for-covid-19-by-september

Here's Surgeon General Adams on December 17th:

Adams said the U.S. should be able to vaccinate 20 million Americans by the end of December.

“We expect that number to be up to 50 million by the end of January and 100 million total by the end of February,” he said.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/coronavirus/surgeon-general-us-able-to-vaccinate-20m-people-by-years-end/

[josh]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

This is not normal.

This is not what Democrats have ever done in the past that we know of. This is not what happened in 2016, 2004, or 2000. It is not what any Republican candidate has done, incumbent or not.

Whether it is the president's insistence that he won or his warning about criminal prosecution and a "big risk" to Raffensburger and Germany, Trump just could not accept what he was being told, in essence telling them that they should just find the minimum number of votes Trump would need to win by one vote.

Then there was the Perdue/Loeffler connection, in which Trump in 3 seconds claimed that this all would cause fewer people to vote and more people to vote:

“You have a big election coming up and because of what you’ve done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam,” Trump said. “Because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this can be straightened out before the election.”

Not normal. And given the vague threats, likely not legal.

[facilitatorn]

We'll never have precise figures on all deaths from covid.   E.g.  an 80 year old has a bad cold which was actually mild covid,  recovers,  and then a couple months later is out pruning a tree and collapses and has cardiac arrest.   It may be impossible to say if the earlier bout of covid was a contributing factor or not.   Or if he had sinus tachycardia due to an overactive thyroid which hadn't been treated, or etc.   

That is why the statistical concept of Excess Deaths is useful with this kind of pandemic.   It's not an Ebola outbreak, where the deaths are unequivocal, easily distinguishable from other COD.   But ED gives a broad metric on the overall effect on public health of a pandemic,  by comparing an average death rate to a current time period.

Totally misses the point.

Your point is bullshit. Barton, a reasonable man, is not going to wade around in it with you, you fascist pig dog, you weak and brittle lying fuck.

[facilitatorn]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia-vote/2021/01/03/d45acb92-4dc4-11eb-bda4-615aaefd0555_story.html

This is not normal.

This is not what Democrats have ever done in the past that we know of. This is not what happened in 2016, 2004, or 2000. It is not what any Republican candidate has done, incumbent or not.

Whether it is the president's insistence that he won or his warning about criminal prosecution and a "big risk" to Raffensburger and Germany, Trump just could not accept what he was being told, in essence telling them that they should just find the minimum number of votes Trump would need to win by one vote.

Then there was the Perdue/Loeffler connection, in which Trump in 3 seconds claimed that this all would cause fewer people to vote and more people to vote:

“You have a big election coming up and because of what you’ve done to the president — you know, the people of Georgia know that this was a scam,” Trump said. “Because of what you’ve done to the president, a lot of people aren’t going out to vote, and a lot of Republicans are going to vote negative, because they hate what you did to the president. Okay? They hate it. And they’re going to vote. And you would be respected, really respected, if this can be straightened out before the election.”

Not normal. And given the vague threats, likely not legal.

Another in the long list of crimes trump can’t escape with a self pardon.

[facilitatorn]

http://thebulwark.com/crimes-crises-and-coup/

[josh]

Here's another place to listen to the audio, now that it is out:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-georgia-votes-presidential-election-2021-01

So, no "paywall" excuse. It's all over the internet now.

[josh]

Nancy Pelosi should play i(the recording) at the Electoral College hearing on Wednesday so the whole Congress has to sit through it nationally televised before the dirty dozen begins their sedition!!