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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

Bo (and other progressives):

https://www.patreon.com/posts/29245112?fbclid=IwAR3H8x5AS3Z5MNkhWVEvEmkllCVf0ONUreSzw1VjcdqkR3DJ9_r0eoL3Jls

http://beautifultrouble.org/theory/pedagogy-of-the-oppressed/

Thanks for the link to the group! If anybody is interested in reading Friere's book, it's free here:

https://archive.org/details/PedagogyOfTheOppressed-English-PauloFriere

[HamiltonIII]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians.

Iran is the enemy of the USA, not Israel. Wake up.

[josh]

It's really no defense of Israel to note that other countries are worse.
And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anti-Israel

It's not intended as a defense of Israel, Bo. It's an indictment against those who attack Israel to the exclusion of other, worse countries.

If you attack Israel and boycott it while ignoring China's and Russia's crimes, the a claim that you are not anti-Israel seems strained. You are not fighting injustices, you are fighting Israel's injustices, choosing the lesser, more attractive criminal, the easier target.

Israel has earned its attacks, its condemnation for how it treats the Palestinians. But the narrow focus is bogus.

You cannot, you must not use Russia and China in comparison with Israel because they ARE bald faced authoritarian regimes.

But...

It is not that I am comparing either of those countries with Israel, but that I am comparing our responses to them to our response to Israel!

We give them a comparative free ride. In the entire (modern) history of the conflict in that land, going back to the late 19th century, there have been fewer deaths than in Syria in some individual recent years!

Israel "deserves" better is an arguable point, Larry, because they have repeatedly put Netanyahu in power. It's not like we've reelected Trump (and may we not)! Israel has chosen this path multiple times. How do they deserve better? Because he sometimes caves to public pressure?

[josh]

There is no "narrow focus."  We were talking about Israel and the Palestinians.  You want to talk about China and Xinjiang, or Russia, or Eritrea, those are different discussions waiting to be had  I don't see much point comparing or confounding different countries. 

Really, I think all countries should be held to the same standards: human rights, international law, universal morality.  And should be held accountable for their failures and violations.

I'm talking about how we treat them.

And you may feel that they should all be held to the same standards, but I am not seeing it happen.

[HamiltonIII]

But bigger picture, I think its more a gray hat/black hat paradigm.

And my take is the black hats want to exterminate the gray hats and have for a long time and as a result the gray hats have become darker over time.

But I believe the gray hats have a right to exist.

I understand that others may disagree with me.

The right to exist is the basic of my posts on this.   When you beat the shit out of people for over half a century, they do tend to get pissed, and radicalize.   Hats do turn darker.

If, in all posts, we replaced Israel with "United States" and Arab/Palestinian with "native American," I think almost everyone would more easily grasp the real cost, in human terms, of treating people as if they are accidents on the landscape.

Iran is the enemy. Not Israel. Wake up.

[HamiltonIII]

Bo seems to think that israel is among the most repressive countries on earth.
I think Bo may have an unspoken agenda.

I don't know why everyone has to take everything to extremes.
When discussing Israel, it's fair to discuss its flaws and problems.
It's really no defense of Israel to note that other countries are worse.
And I don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm anti-Israel or anti-Jewish (or pro-terrorist, another common Israeli distraction/accusation)

I think of occupying Israel as somewhat akin to segregationist America.
It needs to live up to human rights and intl law and it's own ideals to make itself a better society.  Again, the last election in Israel was Bibi against four hardline generals.  It's sad that orthodox settlers and Russian hardliners have taken over, and Labor has become a shell of its former self.

Iran. Iran. Iran. Wake up, genius.

[josh]

OK same language but what other nation is #2 in diversity? Probably significant numbers of every religion and nationality in the book.

Start with Brazil.

And no, Luee, we are NOT #1.

Go ahead and do your own research here, since I doubt you will trust mine. Search (without quotes) either "most diverse country" or "most racially diverse countries," as you prefer. Then provided your link. America is among the latter group, but ethnically and linguistically we are not in the top 20.

[Hairy Lime]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians.

Iran is the enemy of the USA, not Israel. Wake up.

So is Russia, if we are being non-sequitorious. Just because Israel is an ally shouldn't mean we do not.raise.issues when their actions are wrong, or are harmful to our long term self interest.

[Yankguy1]

That you actually can figure out what Luee is saying is something to be congratulated for.

[HamiltonIII]

China, the country you work and live in, and presumably profit from, is one  of the most repressive countries in the world. Yet you remain silent on that matter.

Clearly you haven't been reading or understanding my posts.
I've mentioned China's faults to such a degree that I'm a little uncomfortable and almost paranoid.  I've sided with Donald Trump on the China issue, and said he should go further.  The HK protests could offer Trump a Reagan/Berlin Wall moment if he wanted to take it.  Challenge China to become a democracy, like HK and Taiwan.  Threaten to divert manufacturing elsewhere.  My ideas on outsourcing and US purchases don't just apply to what should have been done in the past, but also what should/could be done in the future.  So I've been more critical, more specific and more radical than anyone else here or, as far as I can tell, in the US mainstream on China. 

Otherwise, I've also been pretty critical of Turkey/Erdogan, though that might have been more in the Knix forum, when the Knix had a Turkish player on the team, who has been branded an enemy of the state.  And I also fairly often bash Putin/Russia.  Where Erdogan has learned quite a bit of his tricks from. The whole authoritarian package of faux democracy, leader-for-life, quash any independent media or opposition is a worrying international trend.  It's how many African countries were run for decades post-independence.

I post in this forum on a semi-regular basis, and skim the posts, but I do not possess a photographic memory, and I do not recall discussions re China other than perhaps a random posts of Trump's idiotic tariffs and their impact on the US and global economy. And I do not recall any of your posts recently criticizing China re Hong Kong. You may be critical of China, and even paranoid, which might explain your seeming lack of critical posts. I do not recall any posts of your expressing that view.  And I think, that outside of Red and kid, most sentient Elbanese posters have posted highly critical posts re Putin.

But at least now I have a little better understanding why you prioritize Israel, and the threat it represents, to be greater that the threats of China, Russia and Turkey, and why you seem to think Israel should be punished by economic sanctions, as you do not think the threats those 3 larger powers, are a threat to US interests or global peace.   

Thanks for stating and clarifying your postions.

Yep. And Iran is the threat to USA interests, not Israel.

[HamiltonIII]

The coverage and slant of news in the US greatly favors Israel.
I don't this is self-evident and not debatable.  All the terms and presentation favor a pro-Israel view of the situation.  I can pick examples out of almost any general news article if you want.

Israel and the US mount fierce diplomatic campaigns and apply pressure to prevent countries and the UN from recognizing Palestine as a state.  Isn't this well-known?  They especially don't want the Palestinians having access to international criminal courts, who would likely rule against Israeli violations of international law.

The Palestinians are allowed a very limited gov't, overseen and restricted by Israel.

Gaza.  Israel maintains an air-sea-land blockade.
Only allowing enough basic supplies in to keep mass starvation at bay.
IL also shoots people on their own territory who approach a fenced border.

Israel has divided the West Bank into three sectors, the majority of which is controlled and policed by Israeli soldiers.  IL controls movement and construction throughout the WB.  Israel collect taxes and decides how and when to pass that on to the Palestinians.

Iran is the enemy of the USA, not Israel. Wake up.

So is Russia, if we are being non-sequitorious. Just because Israel is an ally shouldn't mean we do not.raise.issues when their actions are wrong, or are harmful to our long term self interest.

Haven't heard those two Congress women say anything about Iran. Don't be distracted by Israel. Iran is the threat to stabilization in the region, and in Central Asia. Wake the fuck up.

[REDSTATEWARD]

Watching the rightwing freak out over the NYTimes 1619 Project.....

Just who is “ freaking out”?
History is History.
But a better question might be how come inner city blacks, 400 years later, are still enslaved by democrat -run municipal governments that provide them with substandard living conditions and dysfunctional public schools?

Nice dodge.

And amusing attempt at exculpating a party and a political philosophy that for the last 50 years has treated inner cities and the African American community with at best malign neglect and at worst outright hostility.

Nice fiction.

I assume at some level your denial helps you sleep nights.

I'm not into much fiction.  Especially yours.

[josh]

Watching the rightwing freak out over the NYTimes 1619 Project.....

Just who is “ freaking out”?
History is History.
But a better question might be how come inner city blacks, 400 years later, are still enslaved by democrat -run municipal governments that provide them with substandard living conditions and dysfunctional public schools?

Nice dodge.

And amusing attempt at exculpating a party and a political philosophy that for the last 50 years has treated inner cities and the African American community with at best malign neglect and at worst outright hostility.

Nice fiction.

I assume at some level your denial helps you sleep nights.

I'm not into much fiction.  Especially yours.

And yet you spin so much of it!

[HamiltonIII]

This is for the idiots in the left wing of my Democratic Party who think Israel is the problem:
https://www.rferl.org/a/u-s-again-names-iran-as-leading-terrorism-sponsor/29498883.html

Nice pic at the top. Kind of says it all.

Wake the fuck up

[NeedsAdjustments]

Haven't heard those two Congress women say anything about Iran. Don't be distracted by Israel. Iran is the threat to stabilization in the region, and in Central Asia. Wake the fuck up.

Its a bit like saying you can't say anything about police shootings of black men until you first criticize black-on-black violence.

The US has been consistently checking Iran's ambitions since the 60's.  Most recently, with the reinstitution of the largest sanctions package ever imposed.