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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[luee]

Mud could well be the point the knix have been seeking for two decades. Home nurtured, sorry but he is a must resign. Get him, Trier, KK, and a baller in lotto and things wil be fine in 19. This is a tank, you minimize your chances to win.

[PrezIke]

Which vets? Kanter? lol

You mean a player who has no future with the team, barely the NBA, and stats shows causes more harm than good on the floor?

You don't like the guy's game? Cool. But saying Kanter barely has any future in the NBA? That's some simple shit, hyperbole drifting toward incoherence.

Sadly, his game is outdated and not useful in the modern NBA. Tell me I'm making that up. I don't think that's exactly crazy talk.

His personality, while our desperate fans and bitter beat writers searching for someone to love or create as a false idol to remind us of Oak eat it up here, is not something that's been terribly endearing to his teammates or coaches as he seems very focused on himself over the rest. He did not leave Utah in such nice ways, and his comments after games have not been helpful, IMHO.

I respect him for his stance regarding Erdogan, and he has some talent on offense, in the paint on the offensive glass, but it's really not enough to warrant much consistent playing time. If it were 1995 then he'd be more valuable, sure.

He cannot defend against athletic teams which in the current NBA leads a player like he to literally be a huge problem against more than a few NBA teams.

How many teams use post players and bigs that aren't highly athletic/long (of which he is neither) or can shoot 3s? I feel bad for him as he's not a lump but things are just different now.

Tell me how useful that is to many NBA teams? He'll get a contract next year, but it won't be more than a role player on a team that has quite a few good defensive players already on the floor and real rim protection.

[PrezIke]

I don't LOVE Fiz, but what did you exactly expect this year?

Losing basketball,of course. Is that a serious question? But winning culture, accountability, individual and team growth. Defensive and offensive plans.  You lay the foundation. You help the youth grow. Good coach can provide that. We have a guy who talks game...

You clearly don't understand basketball or how teams work if you don't know what you're seeing or should be seeing.

Defense much improved last two games...so say Clyde and Breen as well.

Oddly enough one of our worst defensive players...a vet...not playing and a few games later the defense improved dramatically.

TBF, Mudiay has been out and you could argue that's someone he gave time to, and there is a correlation there

I think most of the players like him, and respect him. 

Accountability? Doesn't benching various players for periods after giving them chances in the rotation count?

He seemed to speak honestly about why Kanter was benched after Enis constantly complained via social media/the media in ways that some might argue were unprofessional. I suspect Fiz wanted to do it sooner, but enough body of work was provided to justify dropping him

Frank may not be developing how we wanted, but Trier, Robinson, Knox, Vonleh and Mudiay have made strides.

Saying I don't know what basketball is sounds pretty silly though, doesn't it? Come on Les. I'm not going there.

With tonight's loss we are right on track for worst record ever.

With our history, that really takes doing.

I'll stick with everything I said.

So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

[thebizneverloses]

Here's why the Knicks are bidding: https://twitter.com/DragonflyJonez/status/1089985427061264384

(ps BoD fair feedback on the fake trades, but I think NOLA would jump at Fultz and a pick for Miro + Moore, and Philly would have done well as well, especially if they can also finagle Payton out of it...insta depth)

[lesterluv]

So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day

[lesterluv]

You don't like the guy's game? Cool. But saying Kanter barely has any future in the NBA? That's some simple shit, hyperbole drifting toward incoherence.

Yup. That's how I know it's time to go to sleep....

[facilitatorn]

If Kanter was a useful player we could not have traded Melo for him. This year, the screwups were hanging on to Baker when his roster spot could have gone to an actual player and overpaying Mario. Otherwise, our moves made sense.

We’re on our 3rd and 4th string PGs and our PF is playing center and our 14th man is playing PF. It’s a sure recipe for ugly losses.

It’s looking like we’ll get a top 5 pick. Nailing that, locking in KP, getting value from the late 2nd round pick, resigning Vonleh and Kornet without breaking the bank are our chief challenges this offseason. Trying for the big time FA is a move that will probably backfire. The market will be really good for smart effective complimentary players who will price themselves off of their current teams.

The games are ugly right now, but they are in line with expectations.

Tank on.

[luee]

Knix have had their share of truly bad vacationing type bigs recently but Enes is not one of them.  Fiz had problems with Gasol, slowish bangers  just do not fit his coaching style. I just do not understand or like the lack of respect he shows.

[bodiddley]

Los Angeles Lakers get:
Anthony Davis


New Orleans Pelicans get:
Brandon Ingram

Lonzo Ball

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope

2020 first-round draft pick

[bodiddley]

We've been competitive most games.
Everybody has had ops.
A number of players have improved.

Kanter hasn't handled this well.
Burke sat and was quiet.  Lance and Courtly bided their time (yes, they had some health issues).   Lance is starting now.  Kant was complaining when he was coming off the bench and playing 25 mins.

Kant probably lucky he got as many minutes as he did.  Mitch was foul-prone then had B2B minor injuries.  Noah was banished.  Kornet wasn't ready.

Enes isn't as good as he thinks he is.  And the goal is to develop the yute, not help a young vet put up numbers on a bad team to get his next contract.  Kant should take a break, get his body right and be ready when he gets minutes instead of complaining publicly.  Knix have leverage.  Kant doesn't get mins and his value drops and his next contract is less.  Simply, if Kant played acceptable defense, he could be in Knix future plans and starting.  That's on him.

Fizz has been willing to try different combos, bench a guy for weeks, then start him, etc.  For the most part it has worked.  Vonleh and Mud having career seasons (admittedly from a low bar).  Trier and Mitch contributing and looking like genuine NBA bench players.

Knix heading to a Top 6 draft pick.  Fizz isn't a fave of mine, but I like how he's used this season.  Prioritize development.  Give everyone a chance.  See what combos work and such.

I'll be interested to see what the team looks like next year and how Fizz will coach with KZ leading the show. 

This year requires patience.  But I don't see why anyone would want the Knix to have say 5 extra wins at this point.

[facilitatorn]

Thank you Bo. You are a poet and a scholar.

Who first posted that LA proposal? It’s not bad.

[PrezIke]

So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day

Les, I am responding to what I read. What am I missing? I can go back again, but I directly responded to things you wrote.

"Accountability," for example.

Was that not what you wrote?

No disrespect, but speaking of reading, where did I write the word "tanking" in that comment about the other teams, or refer to it being about getting a draft pick AT ALL?

I didn't.

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about losing, but I intended to refer to the process of losing as not necessarily a clear indicator of things going so wrong, as you did imply is a problem you have right now, in so many words in the first post I read and responded to. I am suggesting, as did Fiz after his press conference the other day, that this may be part rather of what it might take to get to becoming good.

How you seem to be dismissing that was what I was directly responding to.

[kidcarter8]

Real good stuff, Prez

It is true of Kanter that the game having changed has hurt his stock.

But I dont appreciate those saying the agme has opened up so much also stating teams need to be more defensive minded

Kanter's game could evolve a little bit - and depending on the team he could be a useful starter (for an above .500 outfit). 

GREAT players fit on all 30 clubs.

Kanter is not great.  True.  And we of course dont want to give him a big chunk of our 29 mil.  But that's teh NY Knicks, not the league in total.

I think we see a deal.

I also think we look to deal Burke - and maybe Vonleh

Evan Roberts proposed a deal yesterday where Vonleh and Burke go to Brooklyn and we net a  first rounder.  And he is a Nets fan.

[lesterluv]

So the Sixers, Lakers, Nets, etc. all had fantastic records prior to their recent turn arounds?

You sure you wanna stick to this line of reasoning?

I am very sure I want to stick with the line of reasoning I have put in my posts.

I think you need to read them.

I never said we should have a fantastic record, lol, nor a winning one, nor even that we should not have a really bad one. Read.

But for many reasons, your three examples are all awful.

The Nets couldn't tank because they didn't have any picks.
The 76's multi-year "process" is especially stupid these days with the new lottery structure.
The Lakers...well.... LEBRON (jeezus..yeah, replicable, ok)

Oh my, I'm going to sleep.

build a culture...have young ones learn by playing with "old ones" ...LAND picks....add talent...avoid idiotic moves...don't needless antagonize players and come up with a different explanation every f'ing day

Les, I am responding to what I read. What am I missing? I can go back again, but I directly responded to things you wrote.

"Accountability," for example.

Was that not what you wrote?

No disrespect, but speaking of reading, where did I write the word "tanking" in that comment about the other teams, or refer to it being about getting a draft pick AT ALL?

I didn't.

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about losing, but I intended to refer to the process of losing as not necessarily a clear indicator of things going so wrong, as you did imply is a problem you have right now, in so many words in the first post I read and responded to. I am suggesting, as did Fiz after his press conference the other day, that this may be part rather of what it might take to get to becoming good.

How you seem to be dismissing that was what I was directly responding to.

No disrespect, but it seems like we are being paid by the word. I made two points in two very short paras in the first post you read and responded to, and I stick by them. They are here:

http://forums.escapefromelba.com/index.php?topic=11.msg82053#msg82053

I didn't specifically indicate what I meant about winning system, but I intended to refer to the process of instilling such a culture as necessary to any turnaround, and it is not one that necessarily reflects itself immediately in the record. Yes you can have a losing record, even a terrible record while doing so. It is exactly what Marks & Atkinson have done and now is bearing fruit. But that is not what I see happening here — whatsoever.

And am not writing one more word about this. I'm on a "project rate" not a "word rate." If you still don't understand, talk to my editor. If you still don't agree, well that's fine, we completely disagree.



*** And just how did the Nets build, with all those losses and all those players, along the way, by the way, since you brought them up.

In 2016/2017, the pair’s first season, the most minutes went to two old vets who wouldn’t be there the next year. (actually 5 out of 6 most mins went to oldest players on the club) Did they waste all those minutes and that floor time by not giving it to folks who would be around when they started to win? Should they have started LeVert & Dinwiddie every game? After all, those guys were the future, right? No, they shouldn’t and didn’t, because they knew that the way to grow their young players who would be around later was by teaching the game in the way it is meant to be played and by fielding the best squad they could every game. They did that, and lost 62 btw, but the foundation was being laid.

[bodiddley]

Who first posted that LA proposal? It’s not bad.

It was among a handful of Davis trade ideas on cbssports site.  The others weren't much, but that one is intriguing.

The other interesting idea is Davis for Ben Simmons +.
Simmons played college in Louisiana.  A top player return for NOPe. 
PHI might figure Embiid and Simmons aren't a good pairing.  But PHi would be taking a chance Butler and AD could leave.  And risky to shake thing up mid-season.  Plus, who plays Point?  McConnell is solid, but is he going to guide you through the playoffs?  Butler isn't a PG, but could help facilitate.  Sexier cities to live in than Philly, but it is a good hoops town.  Kind of opens a lot of questions.  But a Simmons for AD swap is intriguing.