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Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[josh]

(a) The 1918 Pandemic did not have its major change until the thing had been kicking around for at least 6 months, possibly as long as a year. Then it shifted from "merely" deadly to catastrophic, to going through a 100 deaths a day in a single location. To killing 600,000 in October of 1918 when in May through August they hadn't bothered counting because the numbers were just not that high.


Thanks

Like I said - promising......... and hopefully.

Your response was informative - and as usual toward the extreme negative.

How you get from "we don't know a damned thing, yet, about whether this is going to be stable that way" to "promising" is anybody's guess.

And yes, the facts are negative from the past. The trends we are on support looking at the more negative paths of past pandemics, because staring through rose-colored glasses distorts the images and misleads others when the distortions are repeated as if they were facts.

Show me a study and I will tell you whether I believe it or not, Kid.

[bodiddley]

It's clear the US frittered away nearly 2 months, while Trump was providing bromides and false hope.  These lockdowns and the stimulus bill should have occurred over a month ago.  When the outbreaks in Italy and Iran were raging and there was no reason to expect it wouldn't hit the US with equal force.  The US, like the UK has very beneficial geography.  From Jan 1 to Feb 20, the US had 7 weeks to stockpile medical gear, limit entry, figure out testing, and do adequate screening of all arrivals.

Around Feb 21-25 the Italy and Iran outbreaks raged, wherein US efforts should have doubled, with quarantines and lockdowns phased in on the West Coast and major urban entry points such as Chicago, NYC, NJ, ATL, etc.

We should all be able to agree that the US response has been slow, inadequate, ad hoc, disorganized, patchwork, and dangerous.  While the delay and lack of focus allowed the virus to spread and lives to be lost.  And the shortages are a national embarrassment.  Health, safety and welfare are the core functions of government, and in this crisis, the US Gov't has failed on multiple levels.

[kiidcarter8]

Bo

There is nothing on this forum - from any of you - stating the US should have acted at that time.

[bodiddley]

Chloroquine,  in both its chemical forms,  is hardly going unused.   It is a treatment for malaria and lupus,  both diseases with.potential fatal complications, and any large scale redirection (or,  ahem,  hoarding) towards a presently unproven effect will have consequences for millions with those diseases.   

It's lupus and arthritis patients who will be affected by a shortage of hydroxychloroquine.  It's an anti-malarial drug initially, but there isn't malaria in the US, and there are a number of other anti-malarial drugs out there.

[josh]

if you had posted it or a link to the info.

Resubmit if you would like.

Hahahahahaha!

[josh]

https://www.mediamatters.org/coronavirus-covid-19/pro-trump-media-have-ramped-attacks-against-dr-anthony-fauci

[josh]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/us/woman-coughed-on-produce-trnd/index.html

$35,000 worth of food destroyed because this woman walked into a grocery store and coughed all over it.

I sure hope it's mental illness and not somebody convinced this is all a hoax.

[bodiddley]

Bo
There is nothing on this forum - from any of you - stating the US should have acted at that time.

I had no computer except my phone for 3 weeks from roughly Jan 29 - Feb 17, then left two days later on Feb 19 for a 2 week vacation in Europe.  At some point in there, or soon after I got back March 3, I praised Trump for enacting the early ban on Chinese entering the US.  Even though it wasn't a good policy for me personally, in case I needed to flee China, I thought it was a smart and forceful preemptive move.  I've said on here a few times that that travel restriction was good, and the US was the first to take such a strong measure.  Unfortunately after that it's been all fubar.

I thought knowing the degree of international contacts in the US, that the gov't was prepared to take forceful and early measures.  I was mistaken.

People probably already forgot about the cruise ship circling off the California coast, when we already had the example of the Japanese cruise ship in which the virus spread  greatly, and the other ship that finally ported in Sihanoukville Cambodia.  And yet the US had no policy or plan how to deal with a ship with virus positive people on it.  And finally and belatedly improvised a solution.

It's all been like that.  A lack of preparation.  Slow responses.  Mistakes and shortages.  People not taking the threat seriously.   A failure on multiple levels.
Which is why the infection levels are what they are, and continue to rise.  Ask yourself this: Why will the US experience more infections than China where the disease originated and they had less time to prepare and respond?

Also, when I was arguing that everybody should be wearing masks, I was caviled to death with inane objections.  When the truth was that you were being given bad advice because there was a shortage of masks, and ordinary people were considered low-risk and therefore low priority for protection.

[josh]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/03/26/zoombombers-disrupt-online-classes-racist-pornographic-content?dnuarrowclick=yes&utm_source=Inside+Higher+Ed&utm_campaign=6a6af884c6-DNU_2019_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1fcbc04421-6a6af884c6-200136297&mc_cid=6a6af884c6&mc_eid=4fb12a9b76&fbclid=IwAR20CJYreHg8Hx5ANKrS5JTY_dNIdRoEvVWcFpp-eTeFBPg5VC6-VTrIwVw

There are Americans doing great things, as with Mr. Dyson.

Then there are these.

Not quite as damaging to the country as Dan Patrick, but still...

[LarryBnDC]

Barton - please - greater level of civility is called for here

Are you saying that using anti-malaria drugs for this purpose will take the drugs AWAY from those needing it to combat malaria/other maladies?

No.  I apologize - I didnt read anything of the sort - if you had posted it or a link to the info.

Resubmit if you would like.

My daughter takes Plaquenil for MCTD she’s good for the next month but her pharmacist says they’re worried about the month after.

They’re also fearing violence from desperate folks...

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=229290

[LarryBnDC]

Bo
There is nothing on this forum - from any of you - stating the US should have acted at that time.

I had no computer except my phone for 3 weeks from roughly Jan 29 - Feb 17, then left two days later on Feb 19 for a 2 week vacation in Europe.  At some point in there, or soon after I got back March 3, I praised Trump for enacting the early ban on Chinese entering the US.  Even though it wasn't a good policy for me personally, in case I needed to flee China, I thought it was a smart and forceful preemptive move.  I've said on here a few times that that travel restriction was good, and the US was the first to take such a strong measure.  Unfortunately after that it's been all fubar.

I thought knowing the degree of international contacts in the US, that the gov't was prepared to take forceful and early measures.  I was mistaken.

People probably already forgot about the cruise ship circling off the California coast, when we already had the example of the Japanese cruise ship in which the virus spread  greatly, and the other ship that finally ported in Sihanoukville Cambodia.  And yet the US had no policy or plan how to deal with a ship with virus positive people on it.  And finally and belatedly improvised a solution.

It's all been like that.  A lack of preparation.  Slow responses.  Mistakes and shortages.  People not taking the threat seriously.   A failure on multiple levels.
Which is why the infection levels are what they are, and continue to rise.  Ask yourself this: Why will the US experience more infections than China where the disease originated and they had less time to prepare and respond?

Also, when I was arguing that everybody should be wearing masks, I was caviled to death with inane objections.  When the truth was that you were being given bad advice because there was a shortage of masks, and ordinary people were considered low-risk and therefore low priority for protection.

Again, no lies.

What’s unforgivable is they were warned about the possibility and even had a literal playbook for such an occurrence:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819258-Playbook.html#document/p2

[barton]

Chloroquine,  in both its chemical forms,  is hardly going unused.   It is a treatment for malaria and lupus,  both diseases with.potential fatal complications, and any large scale redirection (or,  ahem,  hoarding) towards a presently unproven effect will have consequences for millions with those diseases.   

It's lupus and arthritis patients who will be affected by a shortage of hydroxychloroquine.  It's an anti-malarial drug initially, but there isn't malaria in the US, and there are a number of other anti-malarial drugs out there.

Thanks,  I worded that confusing.  Was referring to the global supply.   In some areas,  the phosphate variety is heavily used and supplies are always short of all anti-malarials.   But yes, the supply deficits here would most seriously affect lupus and RA sufferers, and be life threatening.   

Also,  as I've tried to point out here,  Chloroquine and the hydro derivatives have been known to prolong the QT interval -- that's part of the wave of the electrical signal of your heartbeat measured on an EKG.  When the QT is prolonged, it can put you in a state of arrythmia called Torsades de Pointes, and that can cause sudden cardiac arrest.

I just can't quite convey how dangerous it would be to use these quinine derivatives without careful medical supervision and careful weighing of risks.   Casual "open label" trials are really not the way to go,  and officials making that,  or even self-dosing,  sound like an option is really irresponsible.   Which is what Trump did.   Repeatedly. 

Kid,  as usual,  claims that no one has posted anything about this.   Then promotes lies and false rumors,  and whines about lack of civility when he's called on it.   The civility admonition BTW coming from someone who called the more liberal members here "clowns" in the past week.   

[bodiddley]

Any kind of face mask will offer protection.
US should have used that 4-6 window when the disease was largely contained to China but spreading throughout the PRC to get masks distributed to hospitals and clinics and to ramp up mask production.
Seems there was a lot of dawdling and denial.

re: katrinavirus botching
It's still early, but the early performance hasn't been good, and will look worse when/if things get much worse.

The stock market is in the tank big time.
Outbreaks are popping up all over, and any state might be the next Italy.

The Trump Admin started off well with a tough travel ban from China.  But then they wasted the breathing room they bought, and didn't get preparations under way.  A mask shortage!  Really?  Congress had to more than triple the budget request Trump asked for.  All that minimizing the dangers is going to look bad if the virus spreads far and wide and tens of thousands of Americans die.

The katronavirus is already looking bad for Trump on many levels, but if infections spread widely, and lockdowns are necessary and millions of lives disrupted significantly, well the Katrina/Bush comparisons will be seriously underselling things.

How much of that is actually happening in the US?
They should go to near-Italy measures BEFORE the virus infects 10K or more and there are serious outbreaks all over.

[bodiddley]

The precautions here are impressive.  The whole city is under voluntary lockdown...    Schools and gathering places closed for a month now.  Online classes and work from home.  Soon there will be no cases in SH, which is more than NYC or SF can say.

It makes sense to take precautions early before there is a Northern Italy/Iran/So Korea style outbreak in the US or elsewhere.

The Trump Admin response has seemed mostly poor and chaotic.
The only thing they got right was early on stopping flights to and from China and not allowing Chinese into the US.
Really point me to anything the Trumpeters have done right with the virus, besides the early travel ban I noted above.

[barton]

Let me simplify this for Kid and others uninterested in nuances and details...

Trump doesn't believe in federal government.   His administration has been hard at work dismantling entire federal departments and agencies and boards. 

Many that remain are run by temps,  who are either amateurs with no relevant training or cranks known for espousing debunked theories or harboring extremist partisan and/or religious views at odds with an independent and unbiased perspective their job requires.

Washington is thus a ghost town,  so far as scientific expertise goes.

And when do nations really need federal intervention and scientific expertise?   And need it early in the game and ready to mobilize rapidly?

PAN
FUCKING
DEMICS

Funny,  when it comes to that whole rapid federal mobilization thing,  the GOP seems to embrace the principle when it comes to shooting and blowing up people.   Too bad viruses don't respond to ramping up production of bombs and bullets.