Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.

5 (45.5%)

A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.

5 (45.5%)

A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.

0 (0%)

More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.

0 (0%)

A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.

1 (9.1%)

More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.

0 (0%)

DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.

0 (0%)

Huge disruption to the day.

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM

[kidcarter8]

It's interesting that chemical weapons are illegal in warfare, but are allowed in crowd/riot control.   I guess when you are not supposed to shoot and kill people than it is deemed okay to use temporary incapacitating chemical weapons.


Yes - this is exactly the rationale

And was criticized highly over the summer

[Hamilton Samuels]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/smokers-in-nj-will-get-access-to-covid-vaccine-before-general-public/2830615/

If you teach in New Jersey, you have to wait to get your vaccine behind....wait for it....
 people who smoke!

The medical profession can't be in the business of making moral judgments on patients.   If I'm in the ER with my hand bleeding and there's a guy with COPD who can't breathe,  they're taking him first regardless of his smoking history.   

I would like my schoolteacher daughter to be early in line,  though,  because that protects potentially hundreds of people.

Isn't giving a vaccine a moral judgement? And these smokers put themselves at risk by choices they made to meet the needs of themselves only. Your daughter put herself at risk by choices she made to meet the needs of others.

Isn't the phrase, "first do no harm" calling for making a moral judgement?

Not exactly.  Medicine has a moral basis.   But making personal judgments about patients sinfulness is not part of that,  as you must surely be aware.   Doctors don't backburner diabetic patients because they always ate too many cookies when they could have had an apple.  They do triage on the basis of what patients,  in this moment, are most in need,  a practical and humane standard that is centuries old and not controversial.   My daughter kayaks,  and has dad's robust immune system,  so her risk is much lower than a COPD sufferer.   If all other factors were discounted,  the COPD person would go first.  ( The question of moving her up the line was a practical one of the impact on public health and older relatives of pupils.  One could ask the same question regarding supermarket  cashiers,  et al)

Public health measures, like vaccines,  tend to rely on utilitarian ethics rather than individual virtue,  isn't that the case?   IOW,  what will help the most people as soon as possible and save the most lives?   That's more judgment-neutral (judgment used here in the personal sense of judging a particular person).

All i know is that the excessively overweight, smoking, did-it-too-him/herself self-indulgent couch potato goes ahead instead of the person who acts responsibly and acts for others.

If you're okay with that, then that tells us something.

[kidcarter8]

Barnett, the insurrectionist who enjoyed Pelosi's office, and Jake Chansley the guy in furs and a viking hat are both being detained without bail and being sent back to DC for trial.
An Arkansas judge had ruled that Barnett could be released to home confinement.  But a DC federal judge overruled that.
Good.  These people should be held in jail without bail.  Their guilt of at least minor charges is not in doubt.  And they were part of a dangerous insurrection.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/15/arkansas-riot-release-459807

More dangerous people were bailed out by the VP elect and her group.

[josh]

With fever and nausea being common side effects of the vaccine..and 23 people in Norway dying days after having the jab, think I'll be saying "no thank you".

Norway says there are risks that Covid-19 vaccinations may be too risky for the very old and terminally sick, after 23 people died within a short time of receiving their first shot. Of those deaths, 13 have so far been autopsied with the results suggesting that common side effects may have contributed to severe reactions in frail, elderly people, according to the Norwegian Medicines Agency. “For those with the most severe frailty, even relatively mild vaccine side effects can have serious consequences,” the Norwegian Institute of Public Health said. “For those who have a very short remaining life span anyway, the benefit of the vaccine may be marginal or irrelevant.” (Treloar and Erik Taraldsen, 1/15)


Are you among the most frail over 80?

No...but what about the other 10?

They're 80+, too, but haven't been autopsied.

But you know what, Bambu? Do as you want.

There are items I care about for the world and convincing you to take the vaccine is just not among them. This is a fine thing for your anti-reality to fixate on, so long as you don't try to convince anybody else that you are right, anywhere.

[Hamilton Samuels]

The US road death toll since 9/11 is about 700.000.
700,000 people...staggering number.
What about an advertising campaign..."Towards Zero".
Show a person interviewed...asked the question "What would be an acceptable number"? 
The person says say "200,000".
The person then has 200,000 people parade past, mom's, dads, kids, babies.
The person is shocked.
Then the slogan is announced " Towards Zero".

Australia had a rate of deaths per 100,000 population of 4.3 in 2019, blowing the US away,

Well, that's because they drive on the wrong side of the road!

[josh]

It's interesting that chemical weapons are illegal in warfare, but are allowed in crowd/riot control.   I guess when you are not supposed to shoot and kill people than it is deemed okay to use temporary incapacitating chemical weapons.


Yes - this is exactly the rationale

And was criticized highly over the summer

As it should have been. And still should be.

The (moral) criminality of it has not lessened.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Credit the current administration for the show of force ahead of the next three days' events.

Absolutely. Full credit. That administration made it necessary.

[Hamilton Samuels]

http://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/this-cult-is-ruining-peoples-lives

I didn't like this. 

The rest of us should look at her and feel pity and compassion. The Christine Priolas of the world have become enemies of democracy—but they are also victims. And saving America means saving them, too.

Who is the "us"?  Why is she a victim? Why do they always start with the excuse-making when white people do something crazy?  Stop that now!   

Not all white people.

What is your point?

I think he's echoing the folks who accuse him of labeling all white people when he says something akin to that.

I think it's irony.

Seems like a weird post to respond to with irony.  The post has nothing to do with "all whites" its about whitewashing a white person's motives and motivations. 

We could discuss it or we could respond like sullen teenagers.

I'll take "Adolescent Snits" for $1000, Monsieur Trebec.

[LarryBnDC]

http://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/this-cult-is-ruining-peoples-lives

I didn't like this. 

The rest of us should look at her and feel pity and compassion. The Christine Priolas of the world have become enemies of democracy—but they are also victims. And saving America means saving them, too.

Who is the "us"?  Why is she a victim? Why do they always start with the excuse-making when white people do something crazy?  Stop that now!   

Not all white people.

What is your point?

I think he's echoing the folks who accuse him of labeling all white people when he says something akin to that.

I think it's irony.

Seems like a weird post to respond to with irony.  The post has nothing to do with "all whites" its about whitewashing a white person's motives and motivations. 

We could discuss it or we could respond like sullen teenagers.

I'll take "Adolescent Snits" for $1000, Monsieur Trebec.

“Support your assertions. Don't be like Red or Larry.”

[LarryBnDC]

http://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/this-cult-is-ruining-peoples-lives

I didn't like this. 

The rest of us should look at her and feel pity and compassion. The Christine Priolas of the world have become enemies of democracy—but they are also victims. And saving America means saving them, too.

Who is the "us"?  Why is she a victim? Why do they always start with the excuse-making when white people do something crazy?  Stop that now!   

Not all white people.

What is your point?

I think he's echoing the folks who accuse him of labeling all white people when he says something akin to that.

I think it's irony.

Seems like a weird post to respond to with irony.  The post has nothing to do with "all whites" its about whitewashing a white person's motives and motivations. 

We could discuss it or we could respond like sullen teenagers.

heh

[Hamilton Samuels]

“Look, I didn’t agree with the [Capitol] fight that happened last week, and I voted against overturning the election, but at the same time, the impeachment is a wrongheaded, partisan notion, [and] if Republicans go along with it, it’ll destroy the party,” (Senator Rand) Paul said during the interview.

“A third of the Republicans will leave the party,” Paul continued. “This isn’t about, anymore, the Electoral College, this is about the future of the party, and whether you’re going to ostracize and excommunicate President Trump from the party. Well, guess what? Millions of his fans will leave as well.”

More succinctly, "Because while I condemn insurrectionists, they're important to the party!"

Always putting party before country. That's WHO this asshole is.

[Oilcandide]

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/smokers-in-nj-will-get-access-to-covid-vaccine-before-general-public/2830615/

If you teach in New Jersey, you have to wait to get your vaccine behind....wait for it....
 people who smoke!

The medical profession can't be in the business of making moral judgments on patients.   If I'm in the ER with my hand bleeding and there's a guy with COPD who can't breathe,  they're taking him first regardless of his smoking history.   

I would like my schoolteacher daughter to be early in line,  though,  because that protects potentially hundreds of people.

Isn't giving a vaccine a moral judgement? And these smokers put themselves at risk by choices they made to meet the needs of themselves only. Your daughter put herself at risk by choices she made to meet the needs of others.

Isn't the phrase, "first do no harm" calling for making a moral judgement?

Not exactly.  Medicine has a moral basis.   But making personal judgments about patients sinfulness is not part of that,  as you must surely be aware.   Doctors don't backburner diabetic patients because they always ate too many cookies when they could have had an apple.  They do triage on the basis of what patients,  in this moment, are most in need,  a practical and humane standard that is centuries old and not controversial.   My daughter kayaks,  and has dad's robust immune system,  so her risk is much lower than a COPD sufferer.   If all other factors were discounted,  the COPD person would go first.  ( The question of moving her up the line was a practical one of the impact on public health and older relatives of pupils.  One could ask the same question regarding supermarket  cashiers,  et al)

Public health measures, like vaccines,  tend to rely on utilitarian ethics rather than individual virtue,  isn't that the case?   IOW,  what will help the most people as soon as possible and save the most lives?   That's more judgment-neutral (judgment used here in the personal sense of judging a particular person).

All i know is that the excessively overweight, smoking, did-it-too-him/herself self-indulgent couch potato goes ahead instead of the person who acts responsibly and acts for others.

If you're okay with that, then that tells us something.

You responded to none of his point.   My reading is he's saying that doctors can't be judgmental about lifestyle, though he may personally disapprove.   If we did triage based on who's least self-indulgent,  we'd empty most of the wards and replace them with sports injuries and mountaineering accidents. 

[Hamilton Samuels]

http://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/this-cult-is-ruining-peoples-lives

I didn't like this. 

The rest of us should look at her and feel pity and compassion. The Christine Priolas of the world have become enemies of democracy—but they are also victims. And saving America means saving them, too.

Who is the "us"?  Why is she a victim? Why do they always start with the excuse-making when white people do something crazy?  Stop that now!   

Not all white people.

What is your point?

I think he's echoing the folks who accuse him of labeling all white people when he says something akin to that.

I think it's irony.

Seems like a weird post to respond to with irony.  The post has nothing to do with "all whites" its about whitewashing a white person's motives and motivations. 

We could discuss it or we could respond like sullen teenagers.

I'll take "Adolescent Snits" for $1000, Monsieur Trebec.

“Support your assertions. Don't be like Red or Larry.”

Larry, I know you're going through a lot, lately, so I'll change my tag line. And I hope your sense of humor and zest for living is restored ASAP.

[Hamilton Samuels]

Pardons for sale? Call Captain Renault!!!

From The Guardian: An associate of Rudy Giuliani told a former CIA officer a presidential pardon was “going to cost $2m”, the New York Times reported on Sunday in the latest bombshell to break across the last, chaotic days of Donald Trump’s presidency.


The report detailed widespread and in some cases lucrative lobbying involving people seeking a pardon as Trump’s time in office winds down. The 45th president, impeached twice, will leave power on Wednesday with the inauguration of Joe Biden.

The former CIA officer John Kiriakou, who was jailed in 2012 for leaking the identity of an operative involved in torture, told the Times he laughed at the remark from the associate of Giuliani, the former New York mayor who as Trump’s personal attorney is reportedly a possible pardon recipient himself.

“Two million bucks – are you out of your mind?” Kiriakou reportedly said. “Even if I had two million bucks, I wouldn’t spend it to recover a $700,000 pension.”

An associate of Kiriakou reported the conversation to the FBI, the Times said.

Meant to reward offenders who show contrition, presidential pardons do not imply innocence. Presidents often use them to reward allies but Trump has taken the practice to extremes.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/17/rudy-giuliani-associate-john-kiriakou-trump-pardon

[Hamilton Samuels]

So..is he now Phil Specter?

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/17/phil-spector-dead-dies-81/